In this episode, GALE Managing Director Andrew Noel speaks with Chili’s CMO George Felix about redefining an iconic brand, prioritizing loyalty, and insights from his experience at Old Spice, Tinder, and more.

They discuss:

• (0:37) The Old Spice brand reinvention
• (3:14) The importance of clearly defining you brand
• (5:05) Bringing the KFC Colonel back to life
• (6:53) Marketing at Tinder and in tech world
• (13:53) Reigniting consumer love of Chili’s 
• (16:05) A bold return to TV and brand advertising
• (20:56) Prioritizing loyalty to drive connection 
• (25:42) What to watch for in 2024

We’ve included the full transcript of the conversation below for easy reading, plus have a listen on Amazon, Apple Podcasts, Audible, iHeart, Spotify, Stitcher, TuneIn, or wherever else you get your podcasts!

TRANSCRIPT

Andrew (00:37):

So then you moved on to P&G and I know that was where you got your real start in marketing. As you said, one of the best spots you probably could, especially when you think about brand marketing, what was it like to work on Old Spice? It's just one of these iconic brands that has been out there

George (00:53):

At the time. I'll say looking back, it couldn't have been luckier in terms of the time that I was there and more importantly the people that I got to work with there. It was just a great time to be on that brand, but when I first got assigned to Old Spice, it wasn't necessarily like that brand was lighting the world on fire. In fact, we were kind of getting smoked by Axe and there's a lot of questions about the brand in terms of whether Old Spice could still be relevant and succeed. And so the thing that I loved about that time on Old Spice was that we had license from the company to really reinvent the brand and I got to kind of see firsthand what a true brand positioning can do for a brand and how creativity can really solve business problems. And so I can still to this day remember what that brand pyramid for, that's what P&G calls every brand has to have a brand pyramid.

You got to know what your brand purpose is and who your brand character is and what your points of differentiation are. And so I think that the team there and Wieden & Kennedy, who was our agency at the time, they really defined Old Spice as the official brand of, and the purpose of Old Spice was to help young guys navigate the seas of manhood. And so they kind of found this great positioning when Axe was kind of in this place of spray this body spray on and three girls are going to come running after you. And it was all just about get the girl sex in a can and that it was very disruptive, very different than anything that had been seen in the category before. And even their packaging looked very different and sleek and Old Spice literally has old in the name. And so it just felt like very out of place. And so thankfully got to see firsthand and be a part of that team that kind of found Old Spice's brand voice. And the character that they defined I think has really helped that brand so many years later is that Old Spice wanted to be the honest, experienced big brother that didn't take himself too seriously

Andrew (03:14):

When brands skipped that step of taking the time to really think through it, what is the impact of brands that miss that step from your experience?

George (03:23):

Yeah, it's a good question. Obviously I'm biased because kind of how I was taught and how I learned. So I do think it's critically important to take the time to do that and really understand who you are as a brand and define that. And I think it's something I've done on all the brands that I've worked on and some have had them, some have needed tweaks and others have just needed complete refreshes. And to me, if you skip that step, I guess the question I would ask is it becomes much harder, I think to make big decisions when you don't have that kind of north star and that filter that you can run things through to say, Hey, is this - in marketing we use the term "on brand"a lot, right? Well, to me the way you decide if something's on brand or not is you got to have some sense of who you are and some foundation of what you want to be as a brand and what you stand for. And so without that, I think you could easily find your brand to be a bit fragmented or inconsistent, which can be problematic. So I do think it's a pretty critical piece and time well spent.

Andrew (04:41):

Speaking of spices, and you're probably not going to tell me the secret recipe, but you move from one spice to the next one, which is from the P&G experience to KFC and Pizza Hut and you were there for quite a while, what were some of the big lessons you learned in working with those two iconic brands?

George (05:05):

And even if I knew it, I definitely couldn't, couldn't share it, but I don't know it. There's a very small number of people legitimately that secret recipe is legitimately in a vault in Louisville at the headquarters there, which is a pretty big deal. But KFC was an awesome experience for me in this case. Obviously still went through that same exercise of really defining what the brand was all about and how to position that brand. But the thing that I learned the most there was really the idea that understanding the true DNA of the brand and finding, you can't just go backwards and say like, oh, okay, Kentucky Fried Chicken used to be so great, just come back. That's not going to work. But it's finding those things make you unique and distinctive and then translating them into a way that in today's world and today's culture can still be relevant.

And I think that's the magic that we were able to capture there for a bit of time on KFC, which I think you saw both the people that remembered the brand and experienced the brand I did growing up as a kid that was a quintessential American meal and being the son of immigrants, we didn't cook that kind of food in our house. So that was a real treat when the bucket showed up for dinner and the sides and the coleslaw and the biscuits all the way through younger people that might not have had any experience with the brand, but they kind of got introduced to it in a new way. So that was a fun challenge and again, just a great group of people I got to work with there and had some fun bringing the Colonel back.

Andrew (06:53):

So speaking of different opportunities here, George, so then after, and then we're kind of caught up to date here in your background, you go completely swipe left or right, whatever the right swipe is, and you leave the kind of brand and service food industry and you end up at Tinder, which I guarantee anybody listening wants to hear about. What was it like being in a big tech company as a marketer, a marketing lead, any big insights that you learned from the fast world of tech and apps and downloads and relationships?

George (07:34):

It was definitely an unexpected move, even for me. It was not like a grand plan, but the opportunity, it was really interesting to me and it just felt like one of those an opportunity that I would regret if I did not take. And so I'd always been interested in tech. Obviously at the time and age that we are, we've seen this mass explosion of these incredible tech brands. And so I had always been curious to work in that space and this opportunity came up and at this stage in my career and where I was with family and everything, the opportunity to have that opportunity without relocating my family. And then also Tinder was at a really interesting point, it's evolution. It was about to be about 10 years old and the CEO there at the time, Jim Lanzone and I were talking and he basically said, Hey, this brand, the product experience had not evolved in basically the 10 years that Tinder had been around, if you use Tinder on day one and you use Tinder now, the experience was give or take about the same.

And then it had never really owned its own brand narrative during that time. And so for a brand, it's like the number one non-gaming app in the world. It's just so synonymous. Like you said, swipe right, swipe left. Just when people think of dating apps that that's the number one app they think of. But for those two things to be true, it was kind of weird for them to have that much success but then also have not really evolved the product a ton and not really owned its brand narrative. And so as a marketer, I found that to be a really intriguing opportunity. And so it was awesome. And I say I wasn't there. I was there for a little over a year, but I learned so much one that the company is phenomenal. The culture there was great, it's a brand that's built on inclusivity and the idea that it doesn't matter who you are, what you're looking for, there's a place for you on Tinder.

And I loved that. Got to learn a lot about just how people use the app and how people meet people now. I met my wife at a party in college, so I wasn't a dating app user. And so I got to learn a lot just about how college students and people that age are just meeting people and being social, which was great. And I think the thing that it was a good learning for me too, a tech company marketing is really never going to be at the hub of a tech company in general. It's product and it's engineering. That's where the lifeblood of those companies. And it was really interesting just to learn more about in a product centric company how that works, how marketing can then support that. And I'd say the thing that was really interesting for me as a marketer bringing, coming from a P&G where the first thing you do is that brand pyramid, first thing you understand is what do you want that brand to be about?

What I seem to learn not just about Tinder but studying the broad tech space is that in a lot of these really successful tech companies that the brand kind of happens after the company's become a success. And really it's kind of these companies that have this amazing product market fit and you find this kind of unique proposition and the company takes off and then it's kind of like, oh, we better figure out exactly what we want our brand to be. And you kind of figure that out along the way. And so I think that's where it's a really interesting difference in terms of the tech world versus maybe a CPG or a food world where that stuff is figured out on the upfront to your earlier question. I think in a lot of cases, from what I could tell from a tech standpoint, that brand piece isn't necessarily figured out upfront.

It's kind of figured out more along the way as once you get that spark and that initial product, market fit takes off. And so we did a lot of work at Tinder to really define what is the purpose of Tinder and we really felt like it was to keep the magic of human connection alive and that's the role Tinder can play in the world. But I don't know that, I don't think they had that really figured out 10 years ago. It was more about, wow, we found a really innovative fun way for people to meet people. That was it. And that's just kind of how a lot of tech companies start. It's just that really kind of new to the world way to do something. So I found that to be really interesting and I learned a ton in my time there.

Andrew (12:36):

And having worked with a few mobile apps in my past and even having accountability for one at one point in time, it is fascinating. The users and the way the app is used end up telling you the insights that you need to start adjusting versus clearly up until then your lag between the in restaurant or pickup experience at A KFC or certainly when you have a CPG brand where you're relying on retailers and datas like lag, just obviously a big change in the community is always telling you on the app and how long they hover and how many times whatever they're giving you all of those signals. Yeah, very different. I imagine a very, very different world. But then you hook back up and this gets us pretty back up to date with some old colleagues it sounds like a little bit. And fortunate for us here at GALE, we have an opportunity to be working closely with you now at Chili's, but just tell the listeners if you can, what got you attracted to Chili's? And you've been there for about a year and a half. How's it been so far?

George (13:53):

Yeah, yeah, it's been a ton of fun. The number one thing that attracted me to this opportunity was kind of reuniting with a boss that I've worked with at several of the previous stops we've talked about. So going back to my Old Spice days and then to KFC and Pizza Hut while I was at Yum Brands and now this will be our fourth brand that we've worked together. So Kevin Hochman our, the CEO here at Brinker International, he took that role a little over a year and a half ago. And so with him stepping in as CEO, once he got here, he started talking to me more about the opportunity here at Chili's. And the more that I learned about the company and learned about the brand, the two things that attracted me, one, from a brand standpoint, there was a lot of similarities to some of the brands that I've worked on previously.

So another kind of iconic heritage brand that has, maybe the heyday is behind it and is in need of a little bit of a refresh. And so I felt like there was enough there from my experience that I could bring value from my experience. But it's a new segment of restaurants, so casual dining is a segment I've never worked in. The bar aspect is really interesting to me and exciting to me. So there's a rich history here and a culture where, again, we don't take ourselves very seriously, but we do take the work that we do really seriously. And so it just felt like a good fit personally for me from a culture standpoint. And so that's what attracted me to the role. And I'd say it's really delivered above and beyond my expectations over the last year and a half. And I feel really lucky to get to work on a brand like Chili's that people know. And I'd say generally people love, which is great. And my job is to reignite that love for Chili's again and get people to remember why they loved our brand and to visit us again. So it, it's been a fun ride so far.

Andrew (16:05):

And you arrived at an interesting time when the whole obviously industry shifted from in-person to to-go obviously with the pandemic and now bringing the brand back into the post pandemic world. One of the things I know you championed and that you really pushed forward to try and build the brand was a pretty bold return to TV and brand advertising at a time when we at GALE see a lot of brands struggling for brand dollars to justify brand spend in defensive performance type spend. But it's definitely one of the things that you championed and well tell us how's that been going so far?

George (16:46):

Yeah, it's an interesting thing. The brand, anybody I've told that I work at Chili's, I'd say two things happen, a smile on their face and they generally jump in and say, oh man, I love Chili's. We used to go there for blank, and it's either family night out or after work or after sporting events or after church. And then generally, unfortunately, there's also a man, I just haven't been there in a while. And so when you've got a brand that's got this latent love, I just think our brand's been a little quiet over the last three or four years. And so there's obviously covid occurred and then there was also some shifts away from TV dollars into more focus on third party delivery and things of that nature. And so with that came a pullback on Chili's being a national advertiser. And so I think when we came in, it was really just, Hey, we need to put Chili's back top of mind for people so that it's not that they don't know Chili's, it's just that as they're thinking about what the great options they could go out to grab a bite, are Chili's always top of mind.

And so for a brand like ours, we just felt it was really important that we put that brand back in people's minds and remind people why they love Chili's so much. And so we did make some bigger moves in terms of diverting some of the funds that we were using on discounting and sending out mass available couponing and some of the work we've been doing on delivery and really focus that more on getting back to being a national advertiser. And TV I think is an interesting topic these days. I think the demise of TV was probably overstated for several years now. The reality is I think TV is still a great mass reach vehicle, and for a mass brand like us that's just trying to get back into the mindset, we still think it can be a really effective tool. Now we've got to be smart about the way we use it and we want to be in high impact places and programming that we know people are watching, like live sports and premier programming that people are going to be talking about the next day.

Obviously you got to be diversified into streaming services now and have a strong presence in social media. So we obviously take a holistic approach, but we definitely see TV as being a big part of that. And for us, we've been really happy with the results. We're about nine months in to being back, and we've had a few spurts of what we would call tent pole media, media flights over the last nine months. And we've seen a great response both from a sales and traffic standpoint, but also just from seeing some of those brand metrics move and people really responding back to seeing Chili's again, which has been great.

Andrew (20:00):

It's refreshing to hear because I know some brands have definitely shied away, I think, a little bit from it. I think the results and the foot traffic as we know and what we're seeing in the performance, we're definitely seeing a lift there at the same time. I know, and well, it was fortunate opportunity for GALE, it led to the start of a great relationship that we have going together. But I know that on the party list, it was probably number two on the marketing party list, was to put a strong focus onto your one-to-one or CRM or one-to-one communications program with all your guests or re-look at what does loyalty mean for Chili's. Can you tell us a little bit about why the executive team thought that was a top priority? And a little bit, if you don't mind sharing, what attracted you towards GALE?

George (20:56):

Yeah, absolutely. So when we talk about how are we going to put Chili's back in people's minds and how are we going to drive traffic into our restaurants, there's a few ways to do that, right? There's out of home demand creation through bigger advertising and media spends like we talked about. But the reality is we know we can't be always on advertiser. That's just not possible. And so when you look at all of the channels that we have, our own channel is a very powerful tool that I don't think we've been leveraging as effectively as we could. And so what we really needed was knowing that we think this can be a really strong driver for us of foot traffic, of frequency, of driving our guests into the things we're most proud of from a product standpoint. We really needed a strategic partner that could help uplevel our game, both from a data standpoint and then also a strategic standpoint when we talk about CRM and longer term loyalty strategy.

And so I think that the GALE creds really speak for themselves as you look at the work that you guys have done across several verticals and several brands. And so whenever I'm looking for a new partner, I generally want to reach out to people that I trust. And when you start hearing the same name come up a few times and you start to do a little digging, it became clear to us. And then obviously the initial conversations that we had with the GALE team, we quickly saw that there's a strong connection in terms of shared values and the way we want to work together. And it's been awesome so far. And the best part is I think the really big stuff is still ahead of us, but our entire enterprise here is very excited about the potential and what we can do. And I think what I've loved is the way that you guys have come in and in a lot of ways educated us in terms of here's what's possible and here's the end state that we could get to, but let's lay out the roadmap on how we're going to get there together.

And to me, that's a big part of it. Everyone can talk about, Hey, I want to be able to do X, Y, and Z in the future, and it sounds great on paper, but to get from where we are right now to where we want to get to, it's hard to imagine that. And it's hard to know exactly what steps we have to take. And what you guys have done for us and our executive team in particular, and our board is you've laid that roadmap out for us and it's become really clear to us on what's possible and how we can get there and what investments we need to make and how we need to work to change the way we're working to get there. So it's been pretty exciting. And I think for us, the future looks different in terms of the amount, the depth that we will know our guests and the way that we can communicate with them more effectively.

And an obvious example of that for us right now is right now with a limited view of our guests, we are probably not as targeted and not sending as relevant communications to our guests as we could, whether that be in the form of discounts, whether that be in the form of the types of products, new products that we're offering, or the maybe different offerings, whether it be our to-go or bar or dine-in, we're not as relevant, I think, as we could be to our guests. And I look forward to in the near future, being able to really have a better understanding of our guests, how they interact with Chili's, how they use our brand, and how we can help them offer more value to them in ways that are more relevant to their specific needs states, which is pretty exciting.

Andrew (25:15):

Just kind of pivoting going forward here as we start running out of time, what's got you most excited about 2024, if there's any trends that you're thinking about. But yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit about, since we're close to the new year, any big trends or any big things that you're excited about specifically as it relates to Chili's or your yourself, George, I'm happy to hear about that too, but yeah, anything that you would add there?

George (25:42):

Yeah, obviously I think particularly for our industry as we go into 2024, a lot of the headlines are somewhat ominous or negative in terms of macro environment, in terms of recessionary environment and gas prices or inflation and all those things, student loans, all the things that everyone's worried about right now. And obviously that's there. And the reality is we can't control most of that stuff and we're all going to have to deal with that. So rather than kind of dwell on that, I get excited about the fact that we're, I don't know what you want to call this period after the pandemic, but we're kind of now back at a point where people are really looking for that connection again and looking for those places they can go out and socialize. And for us, that presents a really interesting opportunity if we can deliver what we call Chili Head Hospitality to our guests and really provide them unbeatable value for us. We really think we do offer unbeatable value. And that comes in the form of, it's not just price points, but it's what you get for what you pay. And we think we can deliver abundant great food that people love and everyone can find something they love at Chili's, do it in a great fun atmosphere and have a great time. Whether it's, and we think we are in a unique place to be able to offer that.

We're an interesting time too, in terms of there was a great op-ed in the Washington Post a few months ago about, there aren't many places in America anymore where you see socioeconomic diversity and people of different backgrounds, whether it's ethnicities or socioeconomic demographics, all congregating in the same place anymore. And all the places that were kind of designed to promote that, like public parks and churches and things like that have become increasingly, everyone's got their own bubble, and that sort of co-mingling isn't happening. But places like Chili's and casual dining are places where you see people of all walks of life, and they're all welcome at Chili's. And so we really think there's a really interesting opportunity for Chili's to really be that place that people are looking for connection and a place where they can go with family or friends or coworkers and just have a good time and not overthink things and do so in a fun environment. And so that to me is exciting that people are looking for that and that I hope we can do a good job of reminding people that Chili's is a place that we can offer all of those things for people and do so in a place that's really, you don't have to, can show up however you want, and you're going to feel right at home at Chili's. So that to me is something that I get excited about. Looking ahead into 2024.